No, no. Don't get me wrong. I know who AIG is today. A year from now? Will my Humble memory be able to drag this one back out to the light of day? Ask yourself: who was Enron? Haliburton? Sandy Burger? Gary Condit? John McCain? Teresa Heinz?
I Humbly theorize that it is the nature of Americans (we TV watching tuberous mass) to forget (if not forgive) even the greatest of horrors which do not personally affect us. A year from now, someone will say something about "a bigger bonus than an AIG executive", and you will give him a blank look like he was referring to something from the Taft administration. None of which has anything to do with the point of this post.
I resisted long and hard commenting about AIG and other "Bailed-out" (I use a capital "B" because we loaned them Billions) corporations. The Bailouts were intended primarily to keep large employers from going under, slow the decline of our economy, and keep the wheels of industry greased, as they must be, with money. This has all mostly been a failure, given today's 8% unemployment rate. The point of this post is to state my Humble opinion of the proposed 90% taxation of executive (or perhaps all) bonuses given by Bailed-out Businesses. Frankly, it stinks.
It shouldn't be necessary to even explain why this is so horrendous. I trust my Humble readership to already be able to understand why without a simple explanation. Some of you dear readers, however, may have lives that require time and effort, making mental exercise a luxury, not to be wasted frivolously. That's okay! Read on, and I'll do it for you.
This is a punishment tax. Whenever lawmakers say they are "outraged and appalled" right before announcing a new tax, that tax is intended to "correct" the "outrageous and appalling" behavior just mentioned. The discussion is not intended to get you thinking about what anyone should be doing, or why any such behavior should be considered good or bad by politicians. There is no rational discussion! What you get is an impassioned attack on an easy target! Evil coporations are taking YOUR tax money, and giving it to fat-cat executives! Hmm. That does sound evil! I can't afford a new car, even though I pay taxes, but a Bail-out CEO can pay cash for a new house! I have to budget new shoes for my bambinos but the Man can buy whole shoe stores. Why not tax those bonuses?! That's just taking our money back!
See how easy it is to get caught up in the emotion of it all? Forget the logic, reason, intelligence, just focus on your own needs. Folks, this is called pandering. It's emotional appeal, striking a chord within your viscera, not intended to fire up any neurons. YOU are smarter. YOU can see through the bull--uh--smoke. You KNOW that targeting a single group for punitive taxation is a slippery slope, giving Congress the non-Constitutional power to implement controls over private citizens and industry. Congress has a Constitutional obligation to protect commerce, but they are talking about punishing bad corporations with massive taxes on those evillest of things...bonuses.
What's next? A 50% tax on tips, because some Senator got bad service at Denny's?? Maybe a 72.5% tax on used car sales because Representative Chick N. Choker of Wisconsin bought a lemon? Why not? It has become fair play! Make an argument about how Industry X has violated the "public trust", and how this will simply level the playing field and make things right. How? Don't you worry your little voting head over the details.
Okay, almost the end of this post. Pop quiz: Who is AIG again?
THINK, people.
Sunday, March 22, 2009
Thursday, March 19, 2009
They Say There Will Be Violence
I've seen a half dozen different articles claiming government officials are expecting a summer of violence. The latest one is the report that London Police are preparing for violent protests at the G-20 Summit in April. This is, imHo, about the same as saying "Go out and have a violent protest" to the discontented masses. Preparing for violent demonstrations is a sensible and realistic practice. Announcing plans for dealing with violent protests is idiotic. Why not just advise violent protesters to stock up on gas masks and body armor?
I can (Humbly) think of two reasons to talk about anticipated violence: to score points with fearful constituencies; and to start the process of enacting controlling legislation to "prevent" violence by preempting civil rights. Gun control legislation is the easiest to move following a spree of shocking violence. No need to come up with supporting facts, or to counter arguments that violence has actually decreased since the "Assault Weapons Ban" was repealed.
Local governments with "concealed carry" licensing have all seen a drop in murder and robbery rates. Local governments with restrictive gun laws tend to have much more violent crime, with and without guns.* One tragic school shooting later, however, where a minor steals a gun from a responsible adult, and guns suddenly become the "leading cause of death among children", and MUST be “controlled.” The NRA becomes the evil child killer enabler. Liberal pundits start raving that "the senseless slaughter of our children must end!" Never mind that ONE adult carrying a concealed handgun could have ended this heinous crime in its tracks. Voters who are irrational with fear know guns are evil!
This isn't a pro-gun-rights rant. It's an anti-liberal despotism rant. Think about the news not reported. Ever read ANY article, or hear ANY news story about how John Michael Doe, a concealed weapon license holder, shot and killed, yada yada yada? You know they would shout it to the rooftops if this happened!
This blog is not intended to be a gun rights rant. Really. It's my Humble intent to illuminate my Humble readership as to the value of a good scare, politically. The unofficial motto of the Obama administration is "Never let a good crisis go to waste." That's not a joke! Use every problem, disaster, protest, failure, and disappointment to move our agenda forward.
So, let's all predict a summer of escalating violence, encourage protesters to plan for normally effective countermeasures, and have liberal legislation drawn up and ready to throw onto the table after the "shocking" violent demonstrations take lives. Have a “gun show loophole” law that strips law-abiding citizens of their rights ready for when another school shooting takes place. Have a "Fairness Doctrine" ready to put in place after "rabid Conservative hate speech" is blamed for inciting a violent crime. That's not too cynical, is it?
Sadly, (and Humbly) it's only realistic.
1. The Bias Against Guns, and More Guns, Less Crime, by John R. Lott, Jr.
I can (Humbly) think of two reasons to talk about anticipated violence: to score points with fearful constituencies; and to start the process of enacting controlling legislation to "prevent" violence by preempting civil rights. Gun control legislation is the easiest to move following a spree of shocking violence. No need to come up with supporting facts, or to counter arguments that violence has actually decreased since the "Assault Weapons Ban" was repealed.
Local governments with "concealed carry" licensing have all seen a drop in murder and robbery rates. Local governments with restrictive gun laws tend to have much more violent crime, with and without guns.* One tragic school shooting later, however, where a minor steals a gun from a responsible adult, and guns suddenly become the "leading cause of death among children", and MUST be “controlled.” The NRA becomes the evil child killer enabler. Liberal pundits start raving that "the senseless slaughter of our children must end!" Never mind that ONE adult carrying a concealed handgun could have ended this heinous crime in its tracks. Voters who are irrational with fear know guns are evil!
This isn't a pro-gun-rights rant. It's an anti-liberal despotism rant. Think about the news not reported. Ever read ANY article, or hear ANY news story about how John Michael Doe, a concealed weapon license holder, shot and killed, yada yada yada? You know they would shout it to the rooftops if this happened!
This blog is not intended to be a gun rights rant. Really. It's my Humble intent to illuminate my Humble readership as to the value of a good scare, politically. The unofficial motto of the Obama administration is "Never let a good crisis go to waste." That's not a joke! Use every problem, disaster, protest, failure, and disappointment to move our agenda forward.
So, let's all predict a summer of escalating violence, encourage protesters to plan for normally effective countermeasures, and have liberal legislation drawn up and ready to throw onto the table after the "shocking" violent demonstrations take lives. Have a “gun show loophole” law that strips law-abiding citizens of their rights ready for when another school shooting takes place. Have a "Fairness Doctrine" ready to put in place after "rabid Conservative hate speech" is blamed for inciting a violent crime. That's not too cynical, is it?
Sadly, (and Humbly) it's only realistic.
1. The Bias Against Guns, and More Guns, Less Crime, by John R. Lott, Jr.
Tuesday, March 17, 2009
We're Gonna See Some Real Change Real Soon
If my Humble memory doesn't deceive me, President Obama promised us all change in D.C. politics. I'm still Humbly waiting. Today, he blasted AIG for taking contractually obligated bonuses. He neglected to blast himself for having taken over $100k from them, or Senator Dodd for ensuring they could legally pay out almost half a billion bucks in bonuses. And he totally ignored Secretary Geithner's contribution to the mess. Nope. It's the evil corporate empire's fault.
Neil Cavuto is reported to have criticized the Obama administration for blasting AIG when they have so much they can be called on the carpet for. He reportedly said, "Get the U.S. economy straight before targeting one company." Smart advice. Won't happen.
Today Terry Goddard, Attorney General of Arizona, testified before Congress about border violations. Secretary of Homeland Defense Janet Napolitano, who was formerly governor of Arizona, had no reported comment. Here's what she should say: "As governor of a southwest border state for six years, and as the confirmed Secretary of the Homeland Defense Department, I know exactly what to do. It's Bush's fault!" Unless my Humble memory deceives me, that's all she did as governor.
So, until something happens, there's nothing really blog-worthy. In my Humble opinion, that is.
Neil Cavuto is reported to have criticized the Obama administration for blasting AIG when they have so much they can be called on the carpet for. He reportedly said, "Get the U.S. economy straight before targeting one company." Smart advice. Won't happen.
Today Terry Goddard, Attorney General of Arizona, testified before Congress about border violations. Secretary of Homeland Defense Janet Napolitano, who was formerly governor of Arizona, had no reported comment. Here's what she should say: "As governor of a southwest border state for six years, and as the confirmed Secretary of the Homeland Defense Department, I know exactly what to do. It's Bush's fault!" Unless my Humble memory deceives me, that's all she did as governor.
So, until something happens, there's nothing really blog-worthy. In my Humble opinion, that is.
Friday, March 13, 2009
Character or Charisma?
Eight years ago, newly elected George W. Bush was working hard to set a "new tone" in Washington, D. C. He ignored the abuses of the departing administration, refusing to investigate the destruction of government property (the juvenile prank of removing the "W" key from computer keyboards) or outright theft (rumors were widely reported that the Clinton home strongly resembled their former White House quarters). He chose to try to act like an adult in comparison. This strategy was (in my Humble opinion) a dismal failure. Failing to hold government employees, elected officials, and appointed officials to the standards set in law, set a "new tone" all right. It said the GOP was weak, blind, incompetent, and ineffective.
George Bush tried to show some character. His intentions are laudable, though his methods were misguided. He "misunderestimated" the political machinations of the opposition, their stranglehold over the majority of the mainstream media, and the frustrations of his constituents. His party paid the price. They lost the Senate majority in the next election, and the House majority the election after that. Demonstrating character doesn't accomplish squat in a hostile media environment.
Within the same time frame, his successor, President Barak Hussein Obama, has ordered the closure of Gitmo, tossed out the ban on government funded fetal tissue research, started "investigating" the previous administration's every action, changed the standard of diplomacy towards the U.K. to "barely tolerated" and "treat like crap", and used his office to attack those who state opposition to his wildly unproven attempts to stimulate the economy. Robert Gibbs, his press secretary, and Rahm Emmanuel, his chief of staff, delight in digging at conservative talk radio hosts. There is little or no attempt at maintaining decorum. The Office of the President has no remaining dignity. This is Chicago politics in action! Attack your opponents in any way you can! While the media loves you, you are always right!
President Obama has charisma, that is undeniable. He charmed a nation into forgetting that he had almost no national-level political experience, and NO executive experience. He played on the emotions of the populace, playing race and personality cards expertly. Every attack on his politics became "racial". Every skeleton that came out of his closet became an attack on whoever opened that door. "That's just campaigning," we all thought. After the election, things would be different. After all, Obama ran on a "change" platform.
Perhaps President Obama will come to realize that charisma and character are not mutually exclusive, that having attained the office of President, it is no longer necessary to use Chicago-style political bullying to accomplish his agenda.
I'm not holding my breath.
George Bush tried to show some character. His intentions are laudable, though his methods were misguided. He "misunderestimated" the political machinations of the opposition, their stranglehold over the majority of the mainstream media, and the frustrations of his constituents. His party paid the price. They lost the Senate majority in the next election, and the House majority the election after that. Demonstrating character doesn't accomplish squat in a hostile media environment.
Within the same time frame, his successor, President Barak Hussein Obama, has ordered the closure of Gitmo, tossed out the ban on government funded fetal tissue research, started "investigating" the previous administration's every action, changed the standard of diplomacy towards the U.K. to "barely tolerated" and "treat like crap", and used his office to attack those who state opposition to his wildly unproven attempts to stimulate the economy. Robert Gibbs, his press secretary, and Rahm Emmanuel, his chief of staff, delight in digging at conservative talk radio hosts. There is little or no attempt at maintaining decorum. The Office of the President has no remaining dignity. This is Chicago politics in action! Attack your opponents in any way you can! While the media loves you, you are always right!
President Obama has charisma, that is undeniable. He charmed a nation into forgetting that he had almost no national-level political experience, and NO executive experience. He played on the emotions of the populace, playing race and personality cards expertly. Every attack on his politics became "racial". Every skeleton that came out of his closet became an attack on whoever opened that door. "That's just campaigning," we all thought. After the election, things would be different. After all, Obama ran on a "change" platform.
Perhaps President Obama will come to realize that charisma and character are not mutually exclusive, that having attained the office of President, it is no longer necessary to use Chicago-style political bullying to accomplish his agenda.
I'm not holding my breath.
We Give Up! The Economic Collapse is Over!
President Barak Obama, today, announced that "It's not as bad as we expected," in a press conference about the economy and proposed budget. How regal. How monarchial (monarchaic?). It's as if (monarchistic?) he is allowing this country to (monarchative?) go back to how it was back in August 2008. The improved economy, in comparison (monarchival? HAH! My spell checker likes that one!!!) to the anticipated economy of the next four years, allows deficit spending on the order of $200 Billion over each of the next (monarchiastic? Hmm! My spellchecker liked that too!) 10 years, above the normal overspending. (monarchismal. monarchavistic. monarchical. Now my spellchecker is allowing everything! I think I killed it! I didn't know I could do that!)
Is it, perhaps, possible, that President Hussein--er--Obama, uses fear to accomplish his monarchitudinal agenda when dealing with the masses, but monarchialistically reverts to optimistic monarchiaginal predictions when dealing with Congress?
We are of this (Humble) opinion.
Is it, perhaps, possible, that President Hussein--er--Obama, uses fear to accomplish his monarchitudinal agenda when dealing with the masses, but monarchialistically reverts to optimistic monarchiaginal predictions when dealing with Congress?
We are of this (Humble) opinion.
Saturday, March 7, 2009
I Grieve for Us, Our Ill Society
I just had an email exchange with my mother-in-law. I mentioned a story in the news about quadruplets who survived a year against the odds given by the doctors who had advised some or all of them be aborted. The story was a triumph, and a caution to weigh carefully the decision to end a life. My MiL (clever abbreviation for mother-in-law?) saw this as an attack on "women's rights", the "right to choose", and "reproductive rights".
MiL is a churchgoing woman. She takes her grandsons to church with her most Sundays. She signs them up for Sunday school. She is a christian. But she is so full of self righteous hatred for the male establishment, that she considers anything less than total freedom to kill a fetus up to the moment of birth to be an invasion of the rights and freedoms of all women, childbearing or not. Any restraint on abortion is tantamount to slavery, to her.
I'm a christian, too. But that's about all we have in common. I don't hate the male-dominated establishment. I see it shifting away from male domination, pushed like a sail by the winds of guilt. Centuries of domination mean that males today inherit responsibility for what our predecessors have done. Never mind that these despicable men were also ancestors for the women of this era. We are tainted by their bigotries. So, we are cowards. When confronted with "women have a right to decide what to do with their own bodies," we sheepishly say, "it's your womb, and we have no right to an opinion."
Those babies being aborted by the millions every year, they're our babies too. But the wombs they got started in are under the control of people who may not have the best interests of their tenants in mind. When having a baby might require making massive changes in their lives, and someone is waving a "solution" that is quick, mostly painless, and commonplace, it's much harder to say no. And if any germ of anguish or doubt crosses their gaze, well, damn it, you can't judge! It's only a bit of tissue! It's not murder!
The thing is, I'm a Christian, remember? I believe in a day of Judgement, where we face God, and He decides our eternal fate. And I see millions upon millions of people for whom an unborn child is not worthy of a moment's thought. No effort to let that child live is worth the time, effort, and trouble it takes. So, we, my society, my culture, treasure the "rights" of living, voting, consuming women over those of dependant, vulnerable, utterly helpless unborn...people. All that potential is simply tossed out in a medical waste bag.
Some of you reading this will think I'm a fascist, enslaving, heartless monster for wanting to damn all those women to either give up recreational sex, or be punished with the horrific specter of life with a child. But you who defend the "right to choose", what are you damning all those women to? Will you stand by them, and share their fate on that day of Judgement?
The slaughter goes on, and it's not going to stop because of one pitiful little blog. And I grieve.
MiL is a churchgoing woman. She takes her grandsons to church with her most Sundays. She signs them up for Sunday school. She is a christian. But she is so full of self righteous hatred for the male establishment, that she considers anything less than total freedom to kill a fetus up to the moment of birth to be an invasion of the rights and freedoms of all women, childbearing or not. Any restraint on abortion is tantamount to slavery, to her.
I'm a christian, too. But that's about all we have in common. I don't hate the male-dominated establishment. I see it shifting away from male domination, pushed like a sail by the winds of guilt. Centuries of domination mean that males today inherit responsibility for what our predecessors have done. Never mind that these despicable men were also ancestors for the women of this era. We are tainted by their bigotries. So, we are cowards. When confronted with "women have a right to decide what to do with their own bodies," we sheepishly say, "it's your womb, and we have no right to an opinion."
Those babies being aborted by the millions every year, they're our babies too. But the wombs they got started in are under the control of people who may not have the best interests of their tenants in mind. When having a baby might require making massive changes in their lives, and someone is waving a "solution" that is quick, mostly painless, and commonplace, it's much harder to say no. And if any germ of anguish or doubt crosses their gaze, well, damn it, you can't judge! It's only a bit of tissue! It's not murder!
The thing is, I'm a Christian, remember? I believe in a day of Judgement, where we face God, and He decides our eternal fate. And I see millions upon millions of people for whom an unborn child is not worthy of a moment's thought. No effort to let that child live is worth the time, effort, and trouble it takes. So, we, my society, my culture, treasure the "rights" of living, voting, consuming women over those of dependant, vulnerable, utterly helpless unborn...people. All that potential is simply tossed out in a medical waste bag.
Some of you reading this will think I'm a fascist, enslaving, heartless monster for wanting to damn all those women to either give up recreational sex, or be punished with the horrific specter of life with a child. But you who defend the "right to choose", what are you damning all those women to? Will you stand by them, and share their fate on that day of Judgement?
The slaughter goes on, and it's not going to stop because of one pitiful little blog. And I grieve.
Thursday, March 5, 2009
Bloggity Blog
I sometimes feel a need to blog just to read myself blogging. Well, no, not really. I feel that way now, and that's a first for me. Looking at the news of the day, and reflecting on events of the past two years, I see trends driving the world in its current Titanic-to-the-iceberg direction. According to the movie, they saw the iceberg before they hit it, but the Titanic was going too fast to miss it. Do the movers and shakers of the world understand that we're heading towards a global economic disaster, are they willing to avoid it, and is it not already too late?
About two years ago, the market price of crude oil in the U.S. started what looked like an endless rise. Prices at the pump went up, up, up. Consumer luxury budgets went down, down, down, and before long necessity budgets started to follow. The housing market stopped being a sure-fire positive ROI (return on investment) requiring only a listing fee as an investment. That was Phase I of the World Economic Decline.
As we approached the general election in 2008, the world started to wake up and smell the debt. U.S. currency started to tumble in comparison to the Euro and the Yen. This provided plenty of gloating fuel at the time. A superpower with an unstable economy is like...Russia! Only Russia is doing better than the U.S.! Those nations who would not exist or have their level of prosperity save for the assistance of the U.S. were particularly acrimonious about our difficulties. No offers to help smooth out the troubles were forthcoming.
Right before the general election, Senator McCain decided to "suspend" his campaign to fix the problem. Misbehaving kids get longer suspensions than his campaign had. His solution was to push for a $700B bailout. Congress gave a $350B spending card to Paulson, Bush's secretary of the Treasury, with no requirement for oversight or accountability. One of President Bush's last acts as POTUS was to release the other $350B as well.
The nation was reeling from the increasing pace of "bailouts" and spending by congress. Those few who did the math, and didn't go insane outright, started sounding alarm bells, to which the newly installed BHO administration snorted, "you're just jealous because you didn't win!" BHO then proceeded to break every campaign promise ever made in record time. Even former-pres W.J. Clinton was careful and deliberate in comparison. In the meantime, every major bank and car manufacturer was hitting up congress for spending money!
Now everyone who claims to have been instrumental in getting BHO elected wants payback. Just a few million here, a couple hundred million there. No one cares about a little pork anyway, slimed NY Senator Chuck Schumer. Translation, "you're just jealous because we're in charge of the Senate, and you're not."
But it's the future which concerns me most. In the past, economic setbacks were overcome by market forces, NOT government intervention! A few people get crappy jobs, and do them badly when the government gets involved. Not worth the effort! To make an economy improve, kick up the activity in the private sector! Lower taxes! When taxes drop, people lose their frakking minds, and invest like there's no tomorrow. When taxes go up, people look for tax shelters. Investment, risk-taking, and consumer spending are all discouraged. Tax revenues plummet. Taxes end up going up again to cover the budget which doesn't care if less revenue came in.
Yet, no one is trying to steer around this iceberg! The FDR New Deal didn't fix the Depression! It took a massive new market for military industrial goods to employ every available warm body, creating a secondary market for everything from automobiles to pizza, to fix that hosed-up economy. Commerce seems to be a dirty word to liberals. Yet without commerce, there is no income to tax to fund their little social engineering projects.
Today General Motors announced (paraphrased) "You know that $25B you loaned us? Turns out it wasn't enough, and we might go bankrupt anyway. Sorry."
So, it's all looking pretty murky because the people who can do something are playing ugly little political games and paying back favors, and NOT getting their hands dirty trying to FIX this mess! Popularity be damned! You're not going to have a chance in hell of getting re-elected in 2012 if you can't stop the disaster today!
Why bother? They're not listening.
About two years ago, the market price of crude oil in the U.S. started what looked like an endless rise. Prices at the pump went up, up, up. Consumer luxury budgets went down, down, down, and before long necessity budgets started to follow. The housing market stopped being a sure-fire positive ROI (return on investment) requiring only a listing fee as an investment. That was Phase I of the World Economic Decline.
As we approached the general election in 2008, the world started to wake up and smell the debt. U.S. currency started to tumble in comparison to the Euro and the Yen. This provided plenty of gloating fuel at the time. A superpower with an unstable economy is like...Russia! Only Russia is doing better than the U.S.! Those nations who would not exist or have their level of prosperity save for the assistance of the U.S. were particularly acrimonious about our difficulties. No offers to help smooth out the troubles were forthcoming.
Right before the general election, Senator McCain decided to "suspend" his campaign to fix the problem. Misbehaving kids get longer suspensions than his campaign had. His solution was to push for a $700B bailout. Congress gave a $350B spending card to Paulson, Bush's secretary of the Treasury, with no requirement for oversight or accountability. One of President Bush's last acts as POTUS was to release the other $350B as well.
The nation was reeling from the increasing pace of "bailouts" and spending by congress. Those few who did the math, and didn't go insane outright, started sounding alarm bells, to which the newly installed BHO administration snorted, "you're just jealous because you didn't win!" BHO then proceeded to break every campaign promise ever made in record time. Even former-pres W.J. Clinton was careful and deliberate in comparison. In the meantime, every major bank and car manufacturer was hitting up congress for spending money!
Now everyone who claims to have been instrumental in getting BHO elected wants payback. Just a few million here, a couple hundred million there. No one cares about a little pork anyway, slimed NY Senator Chuck Schumer. Translation, "you're just jealous because we're in charge of the Senate, and you're not."
But it's the future which concerns me most. In the past, economic setbacks were overcome by market forces, NOT government intervention! A few people get crappy jobs, and do them badly when the government gets involved. Not worth the effort! To make an economy improve, kick up the activity in the private sector! Lower taxes! When taxes drop, people lose their frakking minds, and invest like there's no tomorrow. When taxes go up, people look for tax shelters. Investment, risk-taking, and consumer spending are all discouraged. Tax revenues plummet. Taxes end up going up again to cover the budget which doesn't care if less revenue came in.
Yet, no one is trying to steer around this iceberg! The FDR New Deal didn't fix the Depression! It took a massive new market for military industrial goods to employ every available warm body, creating a secondary market for everything from automobiles to pizza, to fix that hosed-up economy. Commerce seems to be a dirty word to liberals. Yet without commerce, there is no income to tax to fund their little social engineering projects.
Today General Motors announced (paraphrased) "You know that $25B you loaned us? Turns out it wasn't enough, and we might go bankrupt anyway. Sorry."
So, it's all looking pretty murky because the people who can do something are playing ugly little political games and paying back favors, and NOT getting their hands dirty trying to FIX this mess! Popularity be damned! You're not going to have a chance in hell of getting re-elected in 2012 if you can't stop the disaster today!
Why bother? They're not listening.
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